What's Next?

[Tai]

I'd agree with you on game flexibility, if the playerbase was decent. But if there's an option to play arena or hallway or similar, nobody will even give the slightest of a fuck about other things. Players will just exploit any options to play a free CS/CoD, and ignore anything else.

You really got to let this one slide man. Hallway was the quintessential AoS map. Easily my favorite (although I liked goon back when we had people who actually built stuff).

It's not an exploit. If people want to play Arena let them play. The issue isn't getting rid of these players, it's finding other players who don't yet know we exist and who have been looking for something like this. I remember the first time I played classicgen I couldn't even comprehend that a game like this existed much less ran on my computer. Community size is the chief issue we're facing.

[LeCom]

I'd agree with you on game flexibility, if the playerbase was decent. But if there's an option to play arena or hallway or similar, nobody will even give the slightest of a fuck about other things. Players will just exploit any options to play a free CS/CoD, and ignore anything else.

You really got to let this one slide man. Hallway was the quintessential AoS map. Easily my favorite (although I liked goon back when we had people who actually built stuff).

It's not an exploit. If people want to play Arena let them play. The issue isn't getting rid of these players, it's finding other players who don't yet know we exist and who have been looking for something like this. I remember the first time I played classicgen I couldn't even comprehend that a game like this existed much less ran on my computer. Community size is the chief issue we're facing.

So you just want to have more CoD/CS fans play AoS? Man, why didn't you tell earlier. Then I don't have anything to say that wasn't already discussed hundreds of times...

[Tai]

So you just want to have more CoD/CS fans play AoS? Man, why didn't you tell earlier. Then I don't have anything to say that wasn't already discussed hundreds of times...

I didn't say that at all. What I'm saying is that the more people you have in a community, the more likely it is you will be able to find the people you want to play with. I don't care if a thousand Brazilians are playing Antic Bridge somewhere if I get to play Classic Gen with some players on the West Coast.

[LeCom]

So you just want to have more CoD/CS fans play AoS? Man, why didn't you tell earlier. Then I don't have anything to say that wasn't already discussed hundreds of times...

I didn't say that at all. What I'm saying is that the more people you have in a community, the more likely it is you will be able to find the people you want to play with. I don't care if a thousand Brazilians are playing Antic Bridge somewhere if I get to play Classic Gen with some players on the West Coast.

The good people left for a reason. If you don't remove the thing that distracted them, neither will they come back nor will new players that want to play AoS like in the old versions stay for a long time. And what distracted them is the fact that AoS has been dragged into the direction of CoD/CS. You can only come towards one playergroup.

[Captain_Pi]

So following the reasoning of your post, if we remove those COD/CS -type maps from the list so that players are not distracted, old players will come back and new players will stay longer.

Impalpable logic, seeing as how that particular game type is the most popular and is the practically the reason some people still play the game in the first place.

[LeCom]

So following the reasoning of your post, if we remove those COD/CS -type maps from the list so that players are not distracted, old players will come back and new players will stay longer.

Impalpable logic, seeing as how that particular game type is the most popular and is the practically the reason some people still play the game in the first place.

When AoS was AoS, there have been at least as many players as now, maybe even more. These brasilian CoD kiddies can leave anytime, and the chance that they will do so is very high.

[Captain_Pi]

Typical LeCom, just spouting things with no forethought whatsoever.

I was talking about your logic where if don't remove the thing distracting players ( which, accordingly is 'the fact that the game was dragged into the direction of CoD/CS'), old players won't come back and new players won't stay for a long time.

So what assurances can you give that removing the things that dragged the game into a CoD/CS type game will make old players come back and new player stay?

What makes you fucking think that removing a good portion of the server list will do the game any good?

For God's sake LeCom, if you're focusing on keeping a game alive then don't focus on ethnics, focus on practicality. Focus on the game, not what you think it should or shouldn't be.

Who cares if AoS is turning into a CoD/CS game, who cares if CoD/CS fans want to come in and play AoS as well, who cares if you don't agree with that reality, who cares if an Arena-type game mode exists in a game that has a building prospect.

If it's what keeps AoS alive, and remains to draw in a number of new players now and then, then so be it.

Honestly this argument could have been avoided if you'd just accept that nothing can be done about those Arena maps, now that it's there and is being played on constantly.

That even though you keep saying 'AoS is turning into something it shouldn't be', you refuse to accept that it already has.

If I were you i'd just build my VoxelWar game, promote it, develop it, and make it into something I want it to be, so I won't have to go complaining in this forum ever again.

[LeCom]

Typical Captain_pi, not knowing shit and always thinking he's smart as fuck.

If the old AoS had good success with its concept of a tactical voxel shooter with engineering involved, why shouldn't it succeed right now? Veterans are bored from the current AoS, not from the classic one. 4chan pursuits this kind of gaming so much that they set up their own 0.54 server and on weekends it was even full. It died out though, because it wasn't an actual 0.54 community and threads get automatically deleted on 4chan. But there IS a demand, it's high and there's not a single alternative.

At long time, BnS won't survive with such a fucked up game and this playerbase. arena and hallway will become boring pretty fast, and everyone will leave. The community will definitely die out if you let it like this. You already see it starting now. This game isn't being developed anymore, and there are no scripters either because the stuff that is possible has already been implemented.

Also, this topic is about changing things, not leaving them as they are. If you are happy with arena and hallway, gtfo. You are critiziting that I write comments that follow the topic.

[Captain_Pi]

You're avoiding everything I'm saying and it's painful to watch. You keep breeding ignorance by bringing up things no one's even asking, and declaring things as fact.

Arena and hallway getting boring pretty fast? I may not speak on behalf of your 'brazilian kiddos' but take a look at the server list these past months. Pretty sure Hallway, Arena or Babel take up most players most of the time, so clearly, it wasn't boring enough.

I'm not happy with shiiieeeet, especially with you. You keep calling the current version of BnS 'fucked', you keep saying things as if they were fact:

" Players will just exploit any options to play a free CS/CoD, and ignore anything else."

" These brasilian CoD kiddies can leave anytime, and the chance that they will do so is very high."

" If you don't remove the thing that distracted them, neither will they come back nor will new players that want to play AoS like in the old versions stay for a long time."

" there are no scripters either because the stuff that is possible has already been implemented."

None of these thing you've said have either happened or tested, yet your tone says otherwise, and you just keep backtracking to the whole "if you leik hallway/arena gtfo" argument, when there's clearly no way out of it. You can't deny that hallway/arena has brought in a decent amount of new players that have kept the game alive since Jagex, and that it's one of the few things people play the game for. That's probably why you ignore all my sentences. You refuse to accept the truth.

Again, I say, if it's what keeps AoS alive, and remains to draw in a number of new players now and then, then so be it.

We don't fucking know if the game will still appeal to the FPS players in the long run, ( if you say something condescending like "The future of BnS is going to be short and painful", I'll just stop myself here and just assume you can't actually read what I write ) but at least stop and consider who you'd be hurting if suddenly aloha.pk arena/hallway, Destiny-server, styled-gaming.eu, etc., were closed down.

You think those players would go "oh woe is me, no more hallway, guess ill be forced to play some AoS classic"?

You want to bring change? More updates and more weapons and such? Then best of luck to you. Best of luck on VoxelWar. If you can't answer any of my questions then we're both done with each other.

MORE:

If the old AoS had good success with its concept of a tactical voxel shooter with engineering involved, why shouldn't it succeed right now?

Who said it shouldn't? I surely didn't.

When I said "accept the reality", was referring to the CoD/CS-type maps leaking into AoS that's been brought up countless times.

Those who play AoS-classic WWI style, they're not being restricted. Everyone can play them right now. It's just that the CoD/CS-type maps surfaced and surpassed the popularity of the classic maps like classicgen or assault ( take a look at the server list for reference ).

I'll be blunt mate, I have no love for Arena, Hallway, Hallway V2 and that stupid map called AnticBridge. But at least I accept that if this is why people play AoS, then I shouldn't stop them.

[Warp]

All of what you guys are saying is very interesting, but arguing won't really help anything..

Chill out a bit.

Brings this to mind:

Spoiler:

[LeCom]

If the facts I wrote aren't facts, then prove that they aren't true. Here, look, the last new script was made at the end of January, it's almost a year ago. Scripters are either gone or just don't do anything new. The things that distracted veterans are still there, are they coming back? A very small group of them, and only for a month maybe, then they go away.

These hallway/arena players don't keep AoS alive - only the CoD/CS part of AoS btw. They're not very good players either; whenever I join a hallway or arena server I see aimbots, immature kids, griefers (on hallway), conversations about minecraft. If you rely on them as your player base and shoo away the veterans, the game is likely to die.

And stop with your "accept the reality" shit. I exactly know what's going on.

The ones who want to play classic AoS actually can't, the client is so fucked up that it's impossible to play like in the old AoS. They actually are restriced, by the way the client is made, though you don't understand such things anyways.

So again, if people want to play arena or hallway, they should go somewhere else. Ben designed AoS as a tactical building FPS, not as some CoD/CS fake. These CoD kiddies just came, filled the arena and hallway servers and distracted the actual AoS players. You shouldn't be surprised that they want to play like they used to. And especially you should stop bithing about that.

Also,

All of what you guys are saying is very interesting, but arguing won't really help anything..

Chill out a bit.

Brings this to mind:

Spoiler:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And:
This thread is about the future. What I wrote is an option of how to improve the game and some critization. You should stop arguing on that, because this way you are derailing the thread.

I'm developing VXW and I have contributed to a classicgen server that does have a few players. But I still am allowed to say how AoS can be improved.

[Tai]

So you just want to have more CoD/CS fans play AoS? Man, why didn't you tell earlier. Then I don't have anything to say that wasn't already discussed hundreds of times...

I didn't say that at all. What I'm saying is that the more people you have in a community, the more likely it is you will be able to find the people you want to play with. I don't care if a thousand Brazilians are playing Antic Bridge somewhere if I get to play Classic Gen with some players on the West Coast.

The good people left for a reason. If you don't remove the thing that distracted them, neither will they come back nor will new players that want to play AoS like in the old versions stay for a long time. And what distracted them is the fact that AoS has been dragged into the direction of CoD/CS. You can only come towards one playergroup.

I'm not having this conversation anymore, LeCom. The good players left because they had been playing for four years and most of them have either graduated high-school or have jobs now. If you think that making a secret club with inaccurate rifles is going to fix the problem, you are free to go ahead and try, but I wouldn't hold my breath. There simply isn't the playerbase you're looking for right now.

[Captain_Pi]

" Players will just exploit any options to play a free CS/CoD, and ignore anything else."

You're speaking as if you've observed this happen before.

" These brasilian CoD kiddies can leave anytime, and the chance that they will do so is very high."

This never happened, and you sound as if you want them gone. That's not nice.

" If you don't remove the thing that distracted them, neither will they come back nor will new players that want to play AoS like in the old versions stay for a long time."

You've no guarantee that doing the opposite will result in old players coming back and new players staying. Therefore stop speaking too blunt about a hypothesis.

" there are no scripters either because the stuff that is possible has already been implemented."

You're saying there are no more game modes for AoS other than what there is now, which isn't necessarily true. You can't just say "people stopped making scripts because there are no more game modes to write scripts on."

That's like saying "people stopped slavery because there's no more work for the slaves to do".

If you rely on them as your player base and shoo away the veterans, the game is likely to die.

"Oh no, the game is full of aimbots, immature kids, griefers and minecraft boys. gg game is dead". Impeccable logic. First off, a bunch of kids does not represent the entire 'player base'. There will always be decent players in these servers that play the game because it's fun.

Second, again I ask you, what assurances can you give that removing the things that dragged the game into a CoD/CS type game will make old players come back and new player stay?

And stop with your "accept the reality" shit. I exactly know what's going on.

You may know what's going on, but you don't accept it at all. That's what I've always been telling you.

The ones who want to play classic AoS actually can't, the client is so fucked up that it's impossible to play like in the old AoS. They actually are restricted, by the way the client is made, though you don't understand such things anyways.

Oh please, you talk as if the magnitude of its demise is high. How difficult could the installation be? It's merely a few clicks! And it's free! Huzzah!

So what about the client that so restricts players from playing Classic AoS? Even after it has worked countless times and most of the time if it doesn't work it's usually on the player's side. What is there more to understand?

if people want to play arena or hallway, they should go somewhere else.

Abolish a significant part of the players? No way.

As much as I hate CoD/CS/ hallway/ arena maps, as much as how many kiddos play the game, and how much as you keep saying CoD/CS fans destroyed the core principles of the game by filling up those servers, they're still a good chunk of your player base. And abolishing them is a surefire way to kill the game more than 'playing hallway'.

Also, I should point out, that if you have a problem with hallway/ arena/ CS type maps, is it really the player's fault?

Blame the scripter, because they made it in the first place. Blame the server hoster, because they made it happen. Players are merely pawns that find something they like and play it.

And especially you should stop bithing about that.

I merely asked you questions. But as always, you blatantly ignored them and call people out because their views aren't parallel to yours. Which means we're both done with each other.

[LeCom]

" Players will just exploit any options to play a free CS/CoD, and ignore anything else."

You're speaking as if you've observed this happen before.

This is happening right now ffs. Or are there any other full servers than arena and hallway, with the exception of babel which just contains the rest of some decent/classic players?

" If you don't remove the thing that distracted them, neither will they come back nor will new players that want to play AoS like in the old versions stay for a long time."

You've no guarantee that doing the opposite will result in old players coming back and new players staying. Therefore stop speaking too blunt about a hypothesis.

If the old AoS had good success with its concept of a tactical voxel shooter with engineering involved, why shouldn't it succeed right now?

Who said it shouldn't? I surely didn't.

" there are no scripters either because the stuff that is possible has already been implemented."

You're saying there are no more game modes for AoS other than what there is now, which isn't necessarily true. You can't just say "people stopped making scripts because there are no more game modes to write scripts on."

That's like saying "people stopped slavery because there's no more work for the slaves to do".

You can always do new gamemodes. But the possibilities of PySnip scripting have been fully used. We had bots, mixedmodes, MGs, krakens, and some other things. That were the borders and you can't go further. There won't be any custom weapons, no actual vehicles, etc.. This made some scripters leave, they can't add any exotic things because the client/protocol restricts them too much.

You did see some things as facts that aren't actual facts.

If you rely on them as your player base and shoo away the veterans, the game is likely to die.

"Oh no, the game is full of aimbots, immature kids, griefers and minecraft boys. gg game is dead". Impeccable logic. First off, a bunch of kids does not represent the entire 'player base'. There will always be decent players in these servers that play the game because it's fun.

Decent players tend to not like hallway or arena. Each time you join such a server, you see why. They are leaving because they don't think that there's hope to play the game they would like to play and babel as an alternative gets boring really fast. But even if decent players stay, they are a real minority.

Second, again I ask you, what assurances can you give that removing the things that dragged the game into a CoD/CS type game will make old players come back and new player stay?

Maybe because it worked like that before 0.60? Don't know if you notice that, but the AoS player count is slowly falling. This is what you should accept. You don't even read what I wrote.
Classic AoS was very fun for many people, it's the way the game grew and evolved. Modern AoS has distracted the ones who built the game and who made it what it was before arena/hallway became so popular.
If these kids want to play CS, there's certainly something for them out there that they should play, but not here. arena/hallway were only supposed to keep the diversity, not be the main part of the game. So this game is in danger of dying. Especially with the problems in the community.
If they leave, it will be like a reboot. With hallway and arena being empty, other servers would show up at the top. This is what should happen. It's even ok if arena/hallway are popular, if their player count has the right ratio to the player count of other servers.

So I'm done with you. Either stay on topic or go away.

[Captain_Pi]

Maybe because it worked like that before 0.60?

What happened before 0.60? I don't recall a mass influx of new players then.

This is the graph of player count, which includes AoS steam, regrettably.
http://aoswiki.rakiru.com/webpages/playercount.html

Player count has been pretty constant with AoS for a long time, with the steam version only periodically surpassing it. But you said it yourself. "When AoS was AoS, there have been at least as many players as now, maybe even more." ~you, earlier in the thread.


As for your last paragraph; [EDIT: meh, maybe I should let someone else reply first].

Go away? rude. I think the problem here is your rudeness. :P